Kindergarten - John McInnes Interviews

John McInnes Interviews Two Early Childhood Educators

The following is a record of John McInnes interviewing two early childhood educators, Una Villiers and Linda Hart-Hewins, regarding their emergent writing programs. As with all copyrighted material, this interview was chosen for its overall merit, although there may be areas where the philosophy and beliefs differ from those of Saskatchewan Education. For example, it should be recognized that there are situations and times when Kindergarten students can benefit from group writing experiences. They could be invited to respond to a story by drawing and writing about it or they could compose a class letter or message to a sick classmate, a guest reader or the caretaker by dictating ideas to the teacher who would write them on chart paper or an overhead transparency.

Please refer as well to "A Letter to Parents/Caregivers on Emerging Literacy."

John McInnes Interviews Two Early Childhood Educators

JOHN: Do you find you talk a lot about how children are learning to write in your classrooms?

UNA: All the time. We talk to colleagues, to parents, and of course to the children themselves.
LINDA: Reflecting on what we do is an important part of change.
JOHN: Now that you are in that process of change, how do children in your classrooms approach writing?
LINDA: In a wide variety of ways, at a variety of times, with varying degrees of enthusiasm. We believe that writing comes most easily and naturally if there is an honest need to write and that we must incorporate writing into all facets of our program. The presence of a writing table isn't enough. In my class, you might see some children adding captions to their pictures, others making signs for the block center such as "DT BRAK" (Don't break), one child writing notes about a place the class has visited, or another producing a menu for a restaurant.

JOHN: Who decides what the children will write about?
LINDA: The children do. Just as we don't tell them what to build or draw, we don't provide topics that they must write about. Instead, we encourage all the children to write about what interests and touches them. This doesn't mean, of course, that they always operate spontaneously and only within the realm of their own ideas. We view our role as one of provider--providing a variety of experiences, both inside and outside the classroom, that might offer children valid reasons for recording interesting ideas and events that are shared.
JOHN: When do they write?
UNA: The children don't write all together at an assigned time. Writing and reading permeate every activity, whether it be with blocks, sand, or crafts. During each day, just as there are many opportunities for children to look at books, to draw, to build, and to talk with an interested adult, so too there are many opportunities to write.
JOHN: Are there ever any instances when you write for the children?
UNA: Of course. If the purpose of the activity is to record some information for future reference, then I adopt the role of recorder. I tell the children, "I am the secretary today. You tell me what to write." If, however, the purpose is for the children to have some printing experience, then I don't adopt this role. We have abandoned the rituals of dictated stories, under-copying, and using word cards as too narrow and inhibiting. My time is now devoted to probing ideas rather than providing accurate models of words.
JOHN: How do children respond?
LINDA: We've released them to write. In the past, when we insisted that children copy accurate forms, we actually inhibited their flow of language and ideas. They resented the time it took to under-copy. They tailored their responses accordingly. "Keep it short because you'll have to copy it," was a familiar line among the children who waited patiently for the teacher or other helping adult to write their story for them!
UNA: By writing for each student, we also missed opportunities to find out what each child already knew about writing.

Four year-old Aileen sees writing as a series of bills, but reads her story each time with consistent meaning.

JOHN: Specifically, what kinds of information do you get from viewing the children's own print?
LINDA: The children's print offers specific insights into what they already understand about the form of writing. For example, look at Aileen's writing as a four-year-old. Her print reveals that she views writing as a series of hills. Interestingly, she read this story every time with the same meaning. Aileen already understands that print holds meaning. Jason also read his story with a constant meaning over a period of rime. However, he views print as a series of sticks and circles. He can print his name, and he understands that this grouping of letters holds specific meaning. So, in attempting to make sense of his knowledge of print, he slips the letters of his name into the text as he seeks to write meaningful prose.

Jason views writing as a series of sticks and circles. He has realized that certain letters bold specific meaning, and likes to slip in the lettters of his own name.

UNA: I find that when children enter school, most of them already understand that print is a series of letters that hold meaning. Tomas's story uses letters randomly, but, despite all adult logic, they convey meaning to him over time. When children are writing in this manner, I find it very useful to examine the print closely, because while it may appear to be a random selection of letters, it may be, as in Ann's case, a dominant sound for most words. This is a significant developmental leap, as Ann now understands that words are composed of specific letters and sounds rather than just any letter and sound. Samples of more sophisticated writing indicate an ability to hear more than one sound in a word, to differentiate between letters and words and the spaces between, and to comprehend that certain letters in combination always spell a specific word.

LINDA: These kinds of observations enable me to offer instruction that is meaningful, so that children continue to make progress along the developmental writing continuum. I found that for a new skill to be understood and used, the child must view that skill as being necessary.

JOHN: What about correction?
LINDA: In my experience, both over-correction and instruction in isolation are counterproductive to the acquisition of new skills.
JOHN: When a child is writing, what help do you offer?
LINDA: I always tailor my response to help each child continue writing or to reflect on his or her work so far. Throughout this whole process, whatever the stage of development, I am very careful to praise the child's work and to question only its content. I try not to look at the mechanics of the work initially, in case I am tempted to correct it. Correcting at the initial stages of writing is deadly! However, if the child is blocked by the mechanics of print, I do offer specific help. For example, if the child asks, "How do you spell monster?" then I ask, "What sounds do you hear?" I accept his or her response. One child may need help to "drag out" the sounds--M-O-N-S-T-E-R--in order to hear some specific sounds. Another might ask, "How do you make an M?" I usually point out the letter on the alphabet chart (it's very close to the writing table), or print the needed letter M on the bottom of the page so that the child can copy it. Sometimes a child becomes muddled as to what word comes next in a long sentence. "Where am I?" is a frequent cry. For these children, I provide some scaffolding and hold the sentence in my head. I say, "You've said `the monster is in the...' and now you need the sounds for CASTLE!"

UNA: We also need to be aware that our responsibility during this whole process does not stop at the actual point of writing and instruction. We know that writing, like all other activities, needs to be shared and applauded if it is to be nurtured and expanded. Hence, some time in every day is set aside for the children to share their writing, as well as other activities, with their peers. The audience is encouraged to ask questions about the work presented or to praise it. We try to help the children view writing as a natural extension of any activity in the room.
JOHN: If the children write on an ongoing basis, how do you keep track of their work?
LINDA: In my classroom, I have file folders for each child. One contains unfinished work (drawings and all writing--signs, notes, and so on). These files are kept in a hanging file. Such a storage system is easy for young children to use. The other folder contains finished work. These files are kept in a filing cabinet. I use the work in these folders as the basis for conversations I have with [parents/caregivers] about their children's progress in the areas of drawing and writing.
UNA: I date all of this work and put any teaching observations on the back. Not only do these observations make it easier for me to illustrate the children's progress for their [parents/caregivers] but they also help me to evaluate and to plan appropriate ongoing instruction.

JOHN: Do you have daily conferences with each child about every piece of writing?
UNA: I "conference" with a child who writes, just as I do with a child who paints, builds, or speaks. I think the term "conference" has been misunderstood by many teachers. It need not be a long, formalized, in-depth interview. I often find that it's a series of short discussions about the content, a moment or two of praise about what has been produced so far, a challenge offered to the child to continue, or a specific instruction given in order to solve an immediate problem. I try hard to provide that contact every day.
LINDA: I try very hard to do so, too. I think it's important to interact with the children about any work they do--whether it is building, drawing, telling a story, or writing.

Hannah, age 6, produced this quite sophisticated piece about her family on a computer.

JOHN: Is their writing published for other children to share?
LINDA: I think we need to be selective about what we publish for young children who are still grappling with print and its form. We need to be quite clear as to our purpose for publishing. If our goal is for other children or adults to read and share this work without the author being present, then of course the work must be edited, transcribed into conventional print, and bound with some permanency. However, if the goal is for the author to share his or her work with peers, then it probably should not be transcribed. When children who don't yet space or hear most sounds in a word have their work edited, they find themselves unable to read this new form! I do take their own print and pictures and bind the sheets into a book for their own use at home or in the classroom. However, this work is usually not used for borrowing purposes.
UNA: If editing becomes necessary, I usually do it with the child. A computer can be a marvellous aid to composition.

JOHN: You are committed to facilitating the child's writing development.
UNA: We feel that the teacher's primary attention has to be on process, not product. We have come to value the children's generation of ideas and a classroom atmosphere that is conducive to writing. We also believe that every writer is entitled to a feeling of personal ownership.
LINDA: We try hard to develop a sense of acceptance and support within the learning environment that is stimulating for the children and for us.

Children want to write. They want to write the first day they attend school. This is no accident. Before they went to school, they marked up walls, pavements, and newspapers with crayons, chalks, pens or pencils-anything that makes a mark. The child's marks say `I am!'
Donald Graves

JOHN:	Do you find you talk a lot about how children are learning to write in your classrooms?
UNA:	All the time. We talk to colleagues, to parents, and of course to the children themselves.
LINDA:	Reflecting on what we do is an important part of change.
JOHN:	Now that you are in that process of change, how do children in your classrooms approach writing?
LINDA:	In a wide variety of ways, at a variety of times, with varying degrees of enthusiasm. We believe that writing comes most easily and naturally if there is an honest need to write and that we must incorporate writing into all facets of our program. The presence of a writing table isn't enough. In my class, you might see some children adding captions to their pictures, others making signs for the block center such as "DT BRAK" (Don't break), one child writing notes about a place the class has visited, or another producing a menu for a restaurant.

JOHN:	Who decides what the children will write about?
LINDA:	The children do. Just as we don't tell them what to build or draw, we don't provide topics that they must write about. Instead, we encourage all the children to write about what interests and touches them. This doesn't mean, of course, that they always operate spontaneously and only within the realm of their own ideas. We view our role as one of provider--providing a variety of experiences, both inside and outside the classroom, that might offer children valid reasons for recording interesting ideas and events that are shared.
JOHN:	When do they write?
UNA:	The children don't write all together at an assigned time. Writing and reading permeate every activity, whether it be with blocks, sand, or crafts. During each day, just as there are many opportunities for children to look at books, to draw, to build, and to talk with an interested adult, so too there are many opportunities to write.
JOHN:	Are there ever any instances when you write for the children?
UNA:	Of course. If the purpose of the activity is to record some information for future reference, then I adopt the role of recorder. I tell the children, "I am the secretary today. You tell me what to write." If, however, the purpose is for the children to have some printing experience, then I don't adopt this role. We have abandoned the rituals of dictated stories, under-copying, and using word cards as too narrow and inhibiting. My time is now devoted to probing ideas rather than providing accurate models of words.
JOHN:	How do children respond?
LINDA:	We've released them to write. In the past, when we insisted that children copy accurate forms, we actually inhibited their flow of language and ideas. They resented the time it took to under-copy. They tailored their responses accordingly. "Keep it short because you'll have to copy it," was a familiar line among the children who waited patiently for the teacher or other helping adult to write their story for them!
UNA:	By writing for each student, we also missed opportunities to find out what each child already knew about writing.

JOHN:	What about correction?
LINDA:	In my experience, both over-correction and instruction in isolation are counterproductive to the acquisition of new skills.
JOHN:	When a child is writing, what help do you offer?
LINDA:	I always tailor my response to help each child continue writing or to reflect on his or her work so far. Throughout this whole process, whatever the stage of development, I am very careful to praise the child's work and to question only its content. I try not to look at the mechanics of the work initially, in case I am tempted to correct it. Correcting at the initial stages of writing is deadly! However, if the child is blocked by the mechanics of print, I do offer specific help. For example, if the child asks, "How do you spell monster?" then I ask, "What sounds do you hear?" I accept his or her response. One child may need help to "drag out" the sounds--M-O-N-S-T-E-R--in order to hear some specific sounds. Another might ask, "How do you make an M?" I usually point out the letter on the alphabet chart (it's very close to the writing table), or print the needed letter M on the bottom of the page so that the child can copy it. Sometimes a child becomes muddled as to what word comes next in a long sentence. "Where am I?" is a frequent cry. For these children, I provide some scaffolding and hold the sentence in my head. I say, "You've said `the monster is in the...' and now you need the sounds for CASTLE!"

UNA:	We also need to be aware that our responsibility during this whole process does not stop at the actual point of writing and instruction. We know that writing, like all other activities, needs to be shared and applauded if it is to be nurtured and expanded. Hence, some time in every day is set aside for the children to share their writing, as well as other activities, with their peers. The audience is encouraged to ask questions about the work presented or to praise it. We try to help the children view writing as a natural extension of any activity in the room.
JOHN:	If the children write on an ongoing basis, how do you keep track of their work?
LINDA:	In my classroom, I have file folders for each child. One contains unfinished work (drawings and all writing--signs, notes, and so on). These files are kept in a hanging file. Such a storage system is easy for young children to use. The other folder contains finished work. These files are kept in a filing cabinet. I use the work in these folders as the basis for conversations I have with [parents/caregivers] about their children's progress in the areas of drawing and writing.
UNA:	I date all of this work and put any teaching observations on the back. Not only do these observations make it easier for me to illustrate the children's progress for their [parents/caregivers] but they also help me to evaluate and to plan appropriate ongoing instruction.

JOHN:	Do you have daily conferences with each child about every piece of writing?
UNA:	I "conference" with a child who writes, just as I do with a child who paints, builds, or speaks. I think the term "conference" has been misunderstood by many teachers. It need not be a long, formalized, in-depth interview. I often find that it's a series of short discussions about the content, a moment or two of praise about what has been produced so far, a challenge offered to the child to continue, or a specific instruction given in order to solve an immediate problem. I try hard to provide that contact every day.
LINDA:	I try very hard to do so, too. I think it's important to interact with the children about any work they do--whether it is building, drawing, telling a story, or writing.

JOHN:	Is their writing published for other children to share?
LINDA:	I think we need to be selective about what we publish for young children who are still grappling with print and its form. We need to be quite clear as to our purpose for publishing. If our goal is for other children or adults to read and share this work without the author being present, then of course the work must be edited, transcribed into conventional print, and bound with some permanency. However, if the goal is for the author to share his or her work with peers, then it probably should not be transcribed. When children who don't yet space or hear most sounds in a word have their work edited, they find themselves unable to read this new form! I do take their own print and pictures and bind the sheets into a book for their own use at home or in the classroom. However, this work is usually not used for borrowing purposes.
UNA:	If editing becomes necessary, I usually do it with the child. A computer can be a marvellous aid to composition.

JOHN:	You are committed to facilitating the child's writing development.
UNA:	We feel that the teacher's primary attention has to be on process, not product. We have come to value the children's generation of ideas and a classroom atmosphere that is conducive to writing. We also believe that every writer is entitled to a feeling of personal ownership.
LINDA:	We try hard to develop a sense of acceptance and support within the learning environment that is stimulating for the children and for us.

John McInnes Interviews Two Early Childhood Educators

Graves, Donald, Writing: Teachers and Children at Work. Exeter, N.H.: Heinemann Educational Books, 1983.

**Graves, Donald, Writing: Teachers and Children at Work. Exeter, N.H.: Heinemann Educational Books, 1983.**